EP016: A Look Into The Artistic Side of Body Jewelry Making

Podcast: Download (Duration: 39:20 — 36.4MB)

Jessica: Hello friends! I'm here with piercer and creator, Jagger of Red Fern Adornments. Being both a jewelry creator entrepreneur and piercer might lend you some interesting insights to world of body modification, and I'm excited to hear your thoughts today. So before we get to all of my questions, let's start by hearing more about you so why don't you introduce yourself?

Photo by @redfernadornments

Jagger talks about what brought him into the industry

Jagger: I just really wanted it. I don't know, I got my ears pierced when I was 12 years old and I'm 26 now and it just went downhill from there. Yeah, so I've just been modifying my body at such a young age and pierced my septum when I was 13 and I had nose ring and all that stuff and my ears were two inches by the time I graduated high school.

Jessica: That's awesome.

Jagger: Yeah, just like modifying jewelry that I had at home to better shoot what I needed at the time and just spending all my money from mowing lawns in body jewelry and stuff. It was savage.

Jessica: I got to the modification game a little bit late. I pierced my nose but I feel everyone my age at 16 pierces their nose, my ears pierced but yeah, I was probably 20 and I actually came to Avanti and I got my septum pierced and then it was also downhill from there for me and it was like, I was bussing tables and so I'd had rent money, food money and then piercing money.

Jagger: Right on, right on.

Jessica: Probably, I feel like all the time just like okay, what's new, let's do something else. It's just addictive.

Jagger explains how piercing is an artistic expression that can take several sessions

Jagger: Yeah, it's definitely fun, especially when you have a vision on what you're trying to paint on the canvas, so to speak. It's cool to just see little progress like, Oh, I want to do an ear project or whatever and you're like, Oh, well, today, I'm going to do my tragus and then next month or whatever, I'll do my rook and then I'll connect them here or have a match with this or whatever and it's really fun and that's what I liked about when I was piercing was helping people kind of paint that picture, so to speak with their body, in a sense.

Jessica: Yeah, it's very much a co-creative process, which is really cool.

Jagger: Yeah, it's definitely been...it's fun.

Jessica: Yeah and then the next step after you start getting holes in your body is to stretch those holes, which is a whole new project.

Jagger: Yeah. I think all my piercings or none of my piercings are the standard size except my nostrils even though they're still kind of big...my nostrils are 16 gauge but -

Jessica: Okay.

Jagger: Everything else is past zero.

Jessica: Okay, and 16 gauge on a nostril is not super common, but it's also not like super big.

Jagger: Yeah.

Jessica: Yeah.

Jagger: So, it's just everyone's like, you're 16 gauge and like, yeah, that's just what they've been.

Jessica: Like that.

Jagger: So they pierce that and that's why it work, when it fits.

Jessica: Oh! that's awesome. How was stretching your labret?

Jagger: My philtrum? It was definitely an interesting process. I definitely stretched it with some unconventional methods that I won't suggest, but it was definitely an interesting trip and it's the first large oral piercing I've ever had and the only large oral piercing I've ever had and the second, third oral piercing I've ever had. So, yeah, it was just a new thing and there's definitely ups and downs with encapsulation problems and stuff like that, but it's all good now and it's sitting at 10 millimeters.

Jessica: Okay.

Jagger: So that was area.

Jessica: That's not bad.

Jagger: Yeah, it's really cool.

Jessica: I had mine pierced at a 12 gauge, but then I downsized it and then I upsized it again and that was not a fun experience for me, personally.

Jagger: Yeah, I had mine pierced at a 14 and then tapered to a 12 and then two days later, I went to 10 and it just -

Jessica: That's right, I know them though.

Jagger: Yeah, I got it to a four gauge before it was fully healed.

Jessica: Ohh!

Jagger: Yeah.

Jessica: Yeah.

Jagger: Something I do.

Jessica: I always like, well do as I say, not necessarily as I did.

Jagger explains the stretching process and his own journey

Jagger: Yeah, I just used the technique called wet stretching and it's definitely not for amateurs. I don't know. I don't really suggest it to anybody but the theory is that the tissue when it's like...I think that theory is obviously, don't quote me on this but when you're stretching a piercing that's fresh, it's at its softest state because the tissue has fully formed so it has a little bit more gift, but it hurts like all hell. So that's kind of the philosophy behind it so there's people that have wet stretch piercings to get real big real fast, and it's kind of insane. My philtrum is not as big as some other people have brought their other piercings, so I don't really have any issues with it but I've seen people stretch their ears super fast and you end up seeing something and stuff but then there's some people that stretch their ears super fast and there's been no issue.

Jessica: Yeah.

Jagger: But when it comes down to stretching your ears, you better take your time.

Jessica: Yes, I've definitely done it -

Jagger: 110%

Jessica: - and it sucks.

Jagger: Yeah, my ears sit about three inches and I've never got my ears cut or anything.

Jessica: Oh, yeah, that's [inaudible 7:01]

Jagger: Yeah.

Jessica: Yeah, because I'm only 11/16", and I've been stretching for three years or four years now.

Jagger: Yeah, I got my ears to three inches when I was 19, so I've been sitting here for about seven years.

Jessica: Okay.

Jagger: Yeah. I don't know. It's fun.

Jessica: Do you find that your ears keep stretching? I guess with the bigger sizes, you don't sleep with your jewelry in or do you or?

Jagger: No, I can't, it's so bad. If you want to know what it feels like, just take like go in your cupboard and go get some of those like small plates that you have and just tape them to the side of your head and try to take a nap.

Jessica: Yeah, I can't take a nap with mine sometimes, they hit my ears wrong.

Jagger: Mine press into my neck.

Jessica: Yeah.

Jagger: And my jaw.

Jessica: Yeah, the weird bone right here.

Jagger: Yes, that hurts sometimes. But sometimes, if my ears are a little peeved, I need to sleep with glass [inaudible 8:05] and it's just a nightmare waking up if I'm not sleeping right because I have to like sleep like this so I can create a pocket for my ear to sit in then I wake up, my arms asleep and I'm just in a bad mood.

Jessica: I try to sleep like this before even with mine being a small or I fold my ear lobes up. It's a weird thing to [inaudible 8:28]

Jagger: I like sleep and you wake up and have a huge ring on your face from your eyelet [inaudible 8:32] dog.

Jessica: Or your raccoon or target dog.

Jagger: Yeah. Got a bull's eye on my face.

Jessica: So I got a little off track with your plugs, so what brought you from, I guess piercing to jewelry making so you started modifying yourself and you started piercing for a couple years and then you're like okay, I'm going to make jewelry now.

Jagger explains how he went from piercer to jewelry maker

Jagger: Yeah, so I think I have worked in almost every facet of this industry at one capacity or another and yeah, I just felt that was kind of like I don't know, I really loved the industry but I've always had an issue with kind of finding the right thing to do and piercing was fun. I enjoy it a lot, obviously. I mean, that's what my job is still based on, you need to have piercings to wear the stuff that I make. It's not like a ring or a bracelet even though I do make those as well but it's mainly like jewelry for large stretched ears like -

Jessica: Those are cool.

Jagger: Yeah, stuff like this. You can't...like not just anyone can wear this. You have to be...these are specifically inch and a half. Anyway, yeah so I don't know I was actually piercing at the time when I started making jewelry. I was living in Connecticut for a couple years and I was working for a large body jewelry wholesaler doing product development and research and development and that was really fun, and I was piercing. I gotta learn how to pierce when I was in Connecticut and then I didn't have a lot going on besides work and I was like, Oh, let me do a hobby and previously, before moving to Connecticut, there was a gentleman that I used to work with that was going around making, carving stone and that was the only time I've ever seen anybody carve stone and it was the most unconventional way. It was like a wild toolset. I would never use those tools today to do what I was doing then.

Jessica: Yeah.

Jagger: Yeah, so I just went to the hardware store and bought some tools and I started messing around and then I just bought more and more machines and now I have a 500 square foot shop with a million machines in it. I'm like looking around my studio right now.

Jessica: Yeah. I've done stone carving. It's hard.

Jagger: Yeah, I mean, it's definitely hard. Obviously, it gets a little bit easier when you have the right tools and stuff.

Jessica: Yeah.

Jagger: But yeah, so after with piercing, I just started making jewelry as a hobby and then, I ended up moving out to Oregon and then I couldn't get my license here so I just kept making jewelry.

Jessica: Yeah.

Jagger: I don't know I make jewelry for people all over the planet.

Jessica: That's so cool. What brought you to Oregon?

Jagger talks about what brought him to Oregon

Jagger: Well, Connecticut, in my opinion, kinda sucks. It's a really pretty place but it's not somewhere that I wanted to spend my 20s. I moved there when I was 19 years old and I moved out of there not, I guess out of necessity because Hurricane Sandy happened. I don't know if you remember that back in 2012.

Jessica: Yeah.

Jagger: So the tattoo shop that I was doing counter for, I was running their jewelry counter, they closed because a hurricane blew one of their studios - well, two of their studios away. Yeah, they're on the shore and they just blew two the studios away and it's the three or four they had at the time. I got an opportunity that I couldn't pass up in Connecticut and work with some really great people for a few years, but Connecticut was just getting really bland.

Jessica: Yeah.

Jagger: Because there's not a lot of stuff to do, especially moving there when you're 19, you didn't go to high school there so you didn't have like a friend rapport and I was too young to go to bars and stuff and mingle with folks, so I was just in a weird social state and then I actually met Tyler when I was working there and yeah, I came out to visit and then I finally met Tyler in person and he told me he's like, because I used to work at Avanti for a little bit.

Jessica: Yeah.

Jagger: He was like, if you move out here, I'll give you a job, no questions asked, so I moved out and started working for him and I was making jewelry and then my jewelry grew and parted ways, and I've been there, been back there a couple times for different occasions but yeah. In Oregon, I've been here for almost five years.

Jessica: Wow. Yeah!

Jessica: In Oregon, it's a beautiful place.

Jagger: Yeah, I'm really happy about it and I feel this is kinda where I belong so yeah, because being from New Jersey, I go back to visit and it's kind of like "bleh." I mean, I love it there and it's wild to say that I'm just from New Jersey because once you're from New Jersey, you don't usually leave New Jersey, and I -

Jessica: Yeah.

Jagger: It's a weird thing like you die in New Jersey, it doesn't matter if you move to outerspace for the rest of your life, you will die in New Jersey somehow.

Jessica: This is where you're gonna be.

Jagger: It's just where you're gonna be, yeah. So that's just kind of the whole idea and I was able to kind of break that mold and it was nice.

Jessica: Yeah, well, you don't sound like you're from New Jersey.

Jagger: Yeah, when I first moved here, I did.

Jessica: Alright.

Jagger: Yeah, well, New Jersey...North Jersey has the accent that's really hardcore but there's different things I would say like water. I would say worger.

Jessica: Worger?

Jagger: Yeah, I would say it super weird. My old man, my dad still says like that but because every time I go back, he's like, Jagger you talk different and I'm like, what is a goody man? And it's just stupid little things like that or when I see friends and stuff that come to visit, they're like, yeah, why do you say like those? Why don't you say like those? I don't know, you just like assimilate into the culture that you're in and I don't feel like people in Oregon really have an accent.

Jessica: I don't feel either.

Jagger: Yeah, I just had a little one from the few things that I said different in New Jersey, that's all but, when people talk like this, or I don't know from mafia movies and stuff, that's just North Jersey, and they basically live in New York. Yeah, I mean, North Jersey is like, Beaverton to Portland.

Jessica: Oh really?

Jagger: It's like, there's subway lines yeah, they go right into Manhattan and you're on the subway for like 15 [inaudible 15:40].

Jessica: Oh, wow. Okay.

Jagger: So yeah, New Jersey super small too, only takes two and a half hours to get through the whole state.

Jessica: Oh, wow! Okay. The only part of the East Coast I've been on is Florida. I've not been anywhere up.

Jagger: Right on. I've been to almost every state.

Jessica: That's cool.

Jagger: I drove here, so -

Jessica: Oh yeah, that would make sense. What is the modification culture between them the East Coast and the West Coast, is it different?

Jagger explains the differences between West Coast and East Coast modification communities in the '90s and now

Jagger: It's not so much different now than I probably would consider like the 90s. Just because we're so intertwined through social media now.

Jessica: Yeah.

Jagger: And the development of like, I don't know if you're familiar with BMU Scene, so BMU Scene was a website that you should definitely go check out after this. It was made by Shanella Rat and it is kind of like---it's kind of like a social---well, they had like a platform called I AM and that whole---I want to say company, but I don't know if that organization maybe, the whole organization is the first pick as social media for the modified world because people were modifying their bodies, but back in the 90s, when the internet was brand new, if you're from New Jersey, you're not talking to someone that lives in California, unless your cousin lives there, I mean, you don't have a rapport with people, but I can talk to people in India, and talk to people in Brazil and I can talk to people all over this rock and it's easy, and I can do it in a second but back in the 90s, it was hard, but BMU Scene kind of brought the modification culture together so it kind of...I feel it's smoothed out a lot, especially in 2020 because I feel trends and stuff, piercing trends, fashion trends, any kind of trend just spread so quickly, because of Instagram and Facebook so it's kind of the same. Different states do have like different real practices, but I guess that's the only like difference for instance, it's kind of funny, because in New Jersey, the only thing kind of paper towels that you can use if you're in a tattoo or piercing studio or bounty-

Jessica: What?

Jagger: That is the law. Well, that was the law when I was there. I don't know if they've changed it but yeah, the legislation was written by the people in the modified industry in the early 2000s.

Jessica: Oh, that's funny.

Jagger: Yeah and it's like bounty paper towels. They were the best one and they were the one that were the most absorbent and that's what they use and that was the guideline for the Ocean County, New Jersey statue. Yeah.

Jessica: You have to use bounty. That's great for bounty.

Jagger: Yeah, super great but yeah, it's just different little quirks and stuff like that or just like different states that are like, Oh, yeah, the tattooing and piercing regulations are brought to you by the cosmetology department or different things but yeah, it just depends on the state but stuff like that, or I guess the only thing that's really different but when it comes down to the grand scope of things, not much.

Jessica: Okay.

Jagger: Yeah, I mean, that's really it.

Jessica: That's really cool. I haven't really met anyone who's been everywhere so I'm curious about that.

Jagger: Yeah, there's a couple states that I haven't been to. Some of them and I haven't been in Louisiana and Mississippi and those ones, but I've been to Florida, all the way up to Massachusetts and almost everything across the country from Colorado over and Indiana, Illinois, and -

Jessica: Very cool.

Jagger: Yeah. Pretty cool.

Jessica: What is your favorite stone to work with?

Jagger: The age old question.

Jessica: I know, I was like, hey, what's your favorite?

Jagger: Yeah, so favorite to work with as in like, the one that gives you like, the least amount of shit, or -

Jessica: I would go so I'm an artist too and I definitely have a favorite color palette so it's something that just speaks to me and I just come back to so it's similar to that. So what's the favorite stone? It doesn't necessarily have to be the easiest to work with but it's the one that when you're working with, you feel most fulfilled with? Does that make sense?

Jagger talks about his favorite, and least favorite, stones to work with

Jagger: Yeah, I guess, I mean, I haven't been doing this as long as nearly as long as the other folks that are in the industry that I guess are my colleagues in a sense that have become really great friends of mine, but I don't know. When it comes down to my favorite stone, at this moment in my life, I'm bored by a lot of them except geodes right now. Geodes are the one thing that I've kind of just exploited.

Jessica: Yeah.

Jagger: I have over like, 300 pairs of geodes in my inventory collection.

Jessica: That's cool.

Jagger: I just hoard them yeah and they're like really hard to come by.

Jessica: Yeah.

Jagger: And I searched high and low and I have contacts in Brazil, India, China and everything to find these rocks without me physically going down there to go get it and every year I go to the [inaudible 21:08] germinal show to go pick-up material.

Jessica: Very cool.

Jagger: But geodes are probably my favorite, even though they can be a pain in the butt. Here's a pair I made the other day, right next to my shelf where I put all my done orders.

Photos by @redfernadornments

Jessica: Yes.

Jagger: If you guys are watching this will be shipping soon.

Jessica: Oh, sweet.

Jagger: Yeah, they're a pair of warring states agate from Hebrew China.

Jessica: Oh, cool.

Jagger: Yeah, they're like the cousin of fighting blood agate. Yeah, and then, so yeah, those are like some geodes and then the gray ones I showed up before are Brazilian agate and these are actually out of a nodule that I cut myself.

Jessica: Oh, that's cool.

Jagger: Yeah, I'm really stoked on them. These are all for the same order but yeah, so agate. geodes are kind of my jam right now. I've been working with a lot of lavender labrets I don't know, all stones have their own like pros and cons some are more critical than others, some are really brittle like [inaudible 22:19] is a nightmare to work with if you don't know like how to forecast about cutting it because it's not even a stone. It's just layers of mica-

Jessica: Oh! that's cool.

Jagger: Yeah so like if you have a labret like lavender labret you put it down on the counter too fast so like blow the wings off and coat, just because of how fast you put it on the counter. It's not even -

Jessica: [inaudible 22:44]

Jagger: Yeah, like you can throw, well, you can like probably like drop an agate labret on a counter and it would be fine but if you just put lavender labret on the counter too fast, like you'll just blow the wings off of it because it's so fragile.

Jessica: That's really cool.

Jagger: But stuff like that. What else is having carbon? I'm trying to think. I [inaudible 23:02-23:04] things. I really like working with opalite even though it's not a stone, it's a glass slag. It's like my favorite material. I don't know why.

Jessica: It's a really- I like opalite, too. I think it's just because it's got that milky like, but there's different colors in there. Yes.

Jagger: Yeah.

Jessica: It just and it goes with everything.

Jagger: Yeah, and I have several different colors of opalite as well.

Jessica: Oh yeah.

Jagger: It's just they're harder to find. They have bubblegum opalite and opalite, which looks like Christ appraise, they have like a lavender opalite. It's just obviously, they're all different colors, but they have that similar, like base characteristic about them like that milkiness and maybe because like opal, it kinda has like blue color, like it's primarily white but has a little bit of blue and when you hold up to the light, it's a little bit pink.

Jessica: Okay.

Jagger: So with the other ones, they have like different color shifts in them, which are pretty cool. I'm trying to figure out what else I want to work with. I just work with a lot of agate. I've been working---I'm trying to think my favorite stone that I've been working with besides like the geodes. I'm a really big fan of Maury Mountain moss agate from Oregon, about three hours away from here, and it's rad as heck and I still have yet to make it to the Maury Mountain but I definitely buy a lot of moss agate. I have like a milk crate full of it.

Jessica: That is super cool.

Jagger: Yeah, I love it. It's a great stone. It's really earthy. It doesn't give me much shit. It's super solid and it's always like impressive to kind of see like what is going on with it.

Jessica: That's really cool.

Jagger: Yeah.

Photos by @redfernadornments

Jagger and Jessica discuss allergies to rocks

Jessica: So I've had people come into our studio and they have allergic reactions to certain veins and rocks. Is that something that's super common in your experience or do you know anything about that?

Jagger: Well, what kind of veins are you talking about?

Jessica: Amethyst.

Jagger: What color is it? Amethyst, okay.

Jessica: It's purple.

Jagger: Like cacoxenite?

Jessica: It might be.

Jagger: I'm not exactly sure what cacoxenite is. The cacoxenite is the brown stuff that you'll see an amethyst?

Jessica: Yeah.

Jagger: But amethyst shouldn't really give you any sort of issue because it's just quartz.

Jessica: That's why I was thinking-

Jagger: It's purple quartz, that's all it is.

Jessica: Okay, I had a customer come in, and they're like, I can only do stones without veins in them and I was like, Oh.

Jagger: Yeah, I don't know. So the other thing is like on a vein, when a stone has a vein, it could potentially be a healed crack or some sort of geological event happen to where there's just like two pieces of the stone like yeah, they're together but you'll see, it'll be like almost like a hairline fracture.

Jessica: Yeah.

Jagger: But you can try to pull it apart and it's not gonna come apart, but that fracture just doesn't go away. No matter how far you grind it, it doesn't make sense to me because rocks are weird because I'm not a geologist by any means. I only know some geological stuff because of the folks in the lapidary community here in Portland and Oregon and the Pacific Northwest, but maybe they have a sensitivity to those little fractures, those like fine hairs or micro pitting, because some people have really sensitive skin, but I've never heard of anyone really having an issue with amethyst. You can have issues with material that's heavily copper bearing, potentially but then there's also some materials that are just not safe to wear like malachite, like genuine malachite, it is toxic. Bumblebee Jasper, it makes me so mad when I see so much of it being used in the rock industry and I see some folks use it in jewelry and stuff and I'm just like, yeah, it's really pretty, you're not gonna get these colors but I'm just like, why are you even doing that?

Jessica: Yeah.

Jagger: Some people will coat it in resin or whatever so it doesn't leach but it's like it has a "spestes" in it.

Jessica: Oh, wow.

Jagger: Naturally occurring. I think it's "aspeces" or it's arsenic. It's one of those two.

Jessica: One of the bad A's.

Jagger: Yeah, one of the bad A's. It's just like, I don't know, they're not safe and it's super unfortunate that countries will carve them with minimal health standards and stuff and yeah, it just don't kill you.

Jessica: Yeah, I think a lot of people are starting to become aware of metal qualities but at least with the customers I've interacted with the idea that stones are things that they put in their stretched lobes could be toxic is a very [inaudible 28:18]

Jagger: Yeah.

Jessica: -concept to a lot of people.

Jagger: Exactly and when it comes down to that too like toxicity materials like stone there are definitely some that will give you a run for your money like Bumblebee Jasper and malachite but then for wood, that's even more hardcore, because I only can wear wood because of the weight thing and there's my roommate is an ex-woodturner and it's a really good example. He's a stone carver now. He does someone projects and stuff, he'll make me plugs and stuff but he can't really carve wood as much or even wear wood because he's had a botanical allergy to it and once you have one really bad botanical allergy, you cannot wear wood anymore. Your ears don't handle it, so for an example, there's a wood called granadillo that some people don't have an issue with and I've never really heard of many people having an issue with it, but my ears kind of get like peppery, they get hurt a little bit and then when I'm wearing those, it's kind of uncomfortable and then if I were to keep trying to wear those, I might develop an allergy to wood in its entirety. So for like, yeah to a botanical allergy, so it's like, cool. I can't wear any wood. I can't wear like the chemical makeup that makes wood.

Jessica: Yeah.

Jagger: Yeah, it would be really bad so stuff wood is kind of like...I love it. I love the material and I've always been a really big fan of wood plugs but it's not the most benign option. Glass is your safest option. It is chemically inert, no one's allergic to it.

Jessica: Yeah.

Jagger: So that's great - titanium. I've never really heard of people being allergic to it, but there's definitely people that probably can be.

Jessica: I've met one person who's allergic to titanium.

Jagger: Yeah and I mean, it's few and far between like, way less people are allergic to titanium than they are like steel.

Jessica: Yeah.

Jagger: But stainless steel still isn't bad.

Jessica: No.

Jagger: Titanium is just safer.

Jessica: Yeah, I think it gets a bad wrap, but it really isn't like, I can wear steel and it's fine, it's just the quality of polish and the quality of what's put in there.

Jagger: Yeah, and it depends on the greatest deal and all that jazz.

Jessica: Yeah, you're like, high grade hot dogs so you're getting low grade hot dogs when it comes to [inaudible 30:46]

Jagger: I am pretty sure hot dogs are all just bad. Yeah.

Jessica: Very cool. Looking back at my questions I got off track, so you have Red Fern Adornments and then you mentioned another company.

Jagger talks about his new business venture into the Adult Novelty industry

Jagger: Yeah, so people that know me or Red Fern, they've seen my other company known as Secret Handshake Company, which is, it's an adult novelty store that I run and I make stone inlaid, butt plugs, and we do collars and stone bug eggs.

Jessica: Wow!

Jagger: We do them in collaboration with May over at Rhea Designs. She's down in LA, and a really great friend of mine, and she helps us put out awesome pieces and May, if you're watching, thank you and keep doing what you're doing because it's awesome and I'm really happy that I get to do this with you andd yeah, it's just another facet of the business and it all used to be under Red Fern but then my mom started liking pictures of that stuff at Red Fern, so I was like well, I need to branch off a little bit and just offer this on another platform and I figured Secret Handshake was silly but also discreet and kinda suggestive and I don't know. It just fits the bill and it's just like a silly little---it was a silly side project but now it's actually like getting legs and starting to walk and it's pretty wild to see it happen like this.

Jessica: Cool!

Jagger: Yeah, someone asked me for an amethyst butt plug and I was like, well, I can do this and then their friends asked me and then more people started asking me and then I started selling to sex shops in all over the country and it's just really cool.

Jessica: Well, it makes sense because with body jewelry, it started off as it was just like no color, or if it was color, it was plated and then it became this very elegant process and it would make sense -

Jagger: Yeah.

Jessica: - that was adult entertainment that it would---it's also very like leather and steel, and now to incorporate beautiful stones and things like that into the process that makes sense that that would start to get its own audience and its own goal, all rolling.

Jagger: Yeah, for sure. So, but yeah, it's been fun. I've definitely met some wild people, but it's all good fun and I really just, I don't know, providing products, if it's jewelry or the other thing. A plugs that just really appreciate it and I get to use my skill set in another light because yeah, making jewelry is fun and stuff, but sometimes it gets a little boring but making the world's first amber ball gag is pretty cool.

Jessica: Yeah, that's like [inaudible 33:56]

Jagger: Yeah, I can.

Jessica: You can. Well, you're only 26, so to imagine that you could...I'm only 24 and I've done so many things in my life and now you're doing so many things in your life. We're young, there's so many facets and chapters ahead.

Jagger: Yeah, amen to that.

Jessica: COVID made it pending.

Jagger: Yeah, COVID pending for sure but well get through that for sure, we got this.

Jessica: Yeah, we're young. It's fine.

Jagger: Oh, yeah.

Jessica: Awesome! Well, I guess before I let you go for the rest of your day, what advice would you have for anyone who is curious in stone carving, I guess?

Jagger ends the interview with advice for how to get started into stone carving and jewelry making

Jagger: When it comes down to stone carving or any sort of jewelry making, just check your local community. Here in Portland, we have the Mt. Hood Lapidary Society or something. I'm not a member of it but they have...I think it's five bucks or whatever. I used to really go in and use their machines and they hold little classes and there's a bunch of people that are 30 times the age of us that have been doing this stuff since the dawn of time and they definitely know a thing or two about a thing or two. So that's really cool and I was mentioning earlier, Facebook is really good resource as well, because there's a lot of nice folks to talk to. I just talked to someone two weeks ago about something I never thought I would ever do and be like, hey, you should try this. It works really well for me and I was like, okay, and I tried it out and I fell in love with it and it's just...because being mainly self-taught, it's just been trial and error for me.

Jessica: Yeah.

Jagger: And I'm always just trying to find the next thing to put out a better product or try to do it in a more timely fashion, because your wrists and hands were out eventually and if I can try to keep them going.

Jessica: Well, in stone carving is a huge physical labor.

Jagger: Yeah, I mean, it's not as bad because I mean, I have a lot of machines.

Jessica: Oh yeah.

Jagger: So and I use modern techniques, I don't use chisel and hammer.

Jessica: I've done the chisel and hammer, that is hard.

Jagger: Yeah, no, you wouldn't get the polish I get on agate and stuff with a chisel and hammer.

Jessica: No.

Jagger: I use diamond grinding wheels and I started coarse grits, 60 grit and I finish all the way at 50,000 grit.

Jessica: Okay.

Jagger: So I try to get that glassy glossy finish and I go farther than some people do and it's fun, but yeah, check your local communities, depends where you are. Some people might have something in your town or there might be in the next town over or somewhere in your county or at least somewhere on your state if you live on the east coast.

Jessica: Yeah.

Jagger: And it's definitely a trade that is...it's not that it's dying, it's just not a lot of young people are getting into it and I think it's really fun and I think that more people should get involved in stone carving, even if they're not making jewelry, just to get into it because it's pretty therapeutic. It is a little expensive to start, but there's enough resources and folks selling used equipment that it shouldn't be that costly.

Jessica: Yeah, I mean, if you do the chisel approach just on just regular stone carving just for sculpture sake, it's not that cost effective or not that expensive, you can just -

Jagger: Yeah, for sure. Yeah, it just all depends on exactly what stone you're trying to work and what you're trying to achieve at the end of it so yeah, there's a lot of resources online and I think there's even some YouTube stuff but yeah, when it comes to making body jewelry, there's not many resources at all. Yeah, so you got to get a little inventive and just think outside the box and me having a lot of stretched piercings. I'm like, Oh, cool, well, this would work here because of how your anatomy sits here, like with T-back labrets, who would have thought?

Jessica: Yeah.

Jagger: I have a silver one right here. Who would have thought that this would have been it?

Jessica: Yeah.

Jagger: Like would have been, how you wear a piece of jewelry in your mouth?

Jessica: Yeah.

Jagger: Trial and error so that's what it comes down to.

Jessica: Well, very cool. Well, thank you so much Jagger for your time!

Jagger: Thank you for letting me do this.

Jessica: Yeah. Well, it was great to meet you. I hope you have a great rest of your day and I'll try to check out your Red Fern Adornments.

Jagger: Yeah, you can always check out or after COVID is over, maybe come out shop and check it out too.

Jessica: That would be super cool.

Jagger: Yeah, I'm up in St. John's so it's not too far.

Jessica: Oh okay.

Jagger: Yeah, it's not that bad. I'm not unlike Corvallis or somewhere far so it's not bad.

Jessica: St. John's is not far at all.

Jagger: I think it's 15, well, depending on traffic, it can either be 15 minutes or 3 days, depends on the flow of the traffic. So, yeah and enjoy the rest of your day and this has been an awesome experience.

Jessica: Awesome. Bye!

Jagger: Alright, see you!

Jessica: See you!